It’s a debate and it’s an hour long. Got it from the folks at WarIsACrime and there is a short, first person report on it at their site as well, in case you want the “cliff note”s on it. From the Youtube description of the debate:
A luncheon debate at the October 22, 2011, conference on “National Security and Civil Liberties,” sponsored by SMU’s John Goodwin Tower Center for Political Studies and the Cary M. Maguire Center for Ethics & Public Responsibility. The debate was moderated by Seyom Brown, the John Goodwin Tower Distinguished Chair for International Politics & National Security; participants were John Yoo, Professor of Law, UC Berkeley School of Law, and Joe “Chip” Pitts, Lecturer, Stanford Law. The day-long conference stimulated dialogue, scholarship, andreflection in the academy and wider community about the need to effectively and ethically pursue U.S. national security imperatives without undermining the country’s historic commitment to civil liberties.
The topic was the CIA’s “enhanced interrogation techniques” and detainee treatment, when John Yoo, former Department of Justice official and author of the “Torture Memos” debated Chip Pitts, Stanford University law professor and former Chairman of Amnesty International, at the Meadows Museum at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.
It was not widely publicized ~ at least, we didn’t get the complete info until less than 24 hours beforehand. It was free, but required registration. When we called to register, we were told it was full. So, we planned to just go protest outside…but then at the last minute decided to see if we could get in anyway, without registration. There were some no-shows, so, to our surprise, they let us in after all…and we sat at the table right next to Yoo in a very fancy room lined with gilt-framed oil paintings and had a very lovely lunch. We decided not to disrupt because we didn’t want to distract from Chip, and we knew Chip would blow Yoo away. (He did.) It was filmed, so I’m hoping it will be made public soon, because it was terrific ~ Chip is always terrific.
To judge who won the debate, different exit doors were assigned to each debater. The audience was asked to leave through the door assigned to the person they thought won the debate. After it was over and we’d been counted exiting Chip’s door, we felt like we couldn’t leave without confronting the war criminal…so Carol & I went back in and got in the line of people “meeting and greeting” Yoo.
I so hate John Yoo, and I try very hard not to hate. I do despise, oh yes..I do..but I really try not to hate. Yoo was quick to add that Obama has supported many of Bush43′s policies on all this fuckery and sadly..he isn’t lying on that count.
But I do hate John Yoo, with every fiber of my being. So, the big question… who won? How many went out Yoo’s door vs Chip’s door?
Word is, the final “score” of the debate was: Pitts 55, Yoo 18.
Yes! I love it..I overwhelming love it. Video of the entire debate below the fold....
This is the epitome of what is wrong w/our government and those that run it in OUR name. It makes me sick, it makes me angry and it humiliates me as an American.From the MSNBC link, Up w/Chris Hayes’ site:
In October, 2001, six Algerian men were arrested in Bosnia and accused of plotting to blow up the U.S. embassy in Sarajevo. They were later released due to insufficient evidence, but immediately handed off to U.S. military forces. In an exclusive interview Chris talks with Lakhdar Boumediene, one of the six men arrested who was then detained at Guantanamo for seven years – without charge or explanation.
Lakhdar Boumediene did nothing wrong, yet we, the universal we, held him for seven friggin years without a trial. He did nothing wrong and we ruined his life not to mention he was told it was ‘all political’. And it’s not only his life, its the lives of all the other detainees who were innocent and then we summarily dumped them in what ever country we could convince to take them ‘off our hands’. It’s about the lives of the rest of the detainees that we KNOW are innocent but still sit in cells in Gitmo.
This is not America. This is a sick disgusting country that allows politicians to play political games with other people’s lives. They are truly politicizing our rule of law as well as our civil and human rights in general.
In case you do not already know this, Alice Walker is participating in the Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. She is sailing along with other Americans of conscience on the "Audacity of Hope." The boat is carrying nothing but letters and messages of support and solidarity to the people of Gaza whom have been facing a long-term blockade by the Israeli government and military. One wonders if messages of love and solidarity are deemed enough of a danger that the Israeli military and government will interfere; but we can only hope not and that the Gaza Freedom Flotilla will be allowed to complete its journey.
30 years ago, the rich and their bought-and-paid-for-politicians began waging class war against the middle class and the poor. They didn't call it that, they still don't call it that, they never will call it that, but that's what it is. Class war. There was no resistance, so they escalated it. There was still no resistance, so they escalated it again. It didn't matter who was President, it didn't matter who controlled Congress--the shock doctrine battle plan was the same, it came down from on high, from Wall Street banks, from corporate boardrooms, from the estates of the rich. The tactics have been complex, they've been planned and revised, refined and adjusted, plotted and perfected and passed into law, concealed with cold calculation in thousands of bills and endless amendments, by Republicrat hacks of the Profit Machine through decades of deceit and bipartisan treachery.
The tactics have been complex, but the strategy isn't. It can be summed up in only four words . . .
Destroy the middle class.
There aren't very many people in the middle class in Algeria or Yemen, in Bahrain or Libya, in Iran or Syria, so the corrupt regimes there have had to settle for destroying the poor. They call it "stability." As we've seen, the people of the Middle East do not have a very high opinion of "stability," they've seen enough of it, they've had their fill of it. They want freedom, and if the only way to win their freedom is in the streets, then in the streets is where they're going to be.
The people of Tunisia took down the Ben Ali regime in 28 days. The people of Egypt took down the Mubarak regime in 18 days. There have been protests in Algeria and Yemen, in Jordan and Libya, in Bahrain and Iran, in Iraq and Morocco, and there will be more protests. Riot police are being deployed, protesters are being beaten, protesters are being killed, but these brutal tactics of repression failed in Egypt and they're going to fail everywhere else.
You can blow out a candle,
But you can't blow out a fire.
Once the flames begin to catch,
The wind will blow it higher.
They came up on the bridges leading to Tahrir, faced off with hundreds and hundreds of riot police from the Interior Ministry, from the state security forces, and were met with violence. They walked with their hands up in the air, showing that they were coming peacefully, chanting, "Salmiya! Salmiya!" which means "Peacefully." And they were beaten down. They were tear-gassed over and over again.
But they did not turn back, they did not give up, the crowds grew larger, on the eighth day of the Revolution in Egypt, the center of Cairo was filled with two million people, hundreds of thousands protested in Alexandria and other cities.
They came out in droves, old and young, and they took the streets. And what one person told me was, when they would be beaten down and tear-gassed, others would come in and rush the police, and then they would fall down, and others would come back after them. And they said, "We gave each other courage."
But the tyrant would not leave, the criminal, the torturer, the killer of his own people had other plans . . .
We're a week into the Egyptian uprising now, and it's time to reassess what has taken place so far and what might come next.
We know a few things, and we don't know a lot-and from what we can tell, the folks on the ground are also not sure what might happen. That said, we do know enough to begin to figure out the right questions to be asking.
As was true Friday, things are moving fast, so let's jump right in.
It has been a couple of years since we first started writing about Egypt; at that time we did a series of stories that described how the country's Constitution is designed to ensure that the ruling National Democratic Party (NDP) remains the ruling party, how corruption and torture and rape are part of the justice system, how there's a looming Presidential succession crisis, and how we better pay attention, because one day all of this was going to blow up into a national emergency, with the potential for disastrous consequences that ripple all the way from Turkey to Morocco to Pakistan.
And now...that day has arrived.
After protests that led to a change of government (sort of) in Tunisia, rioting is spreading across Egypt, quickly, the ISI (Egypt's internal security police) is out grabbing citizens and doing what they do (we'll talk more about that later), and the question of Presidential succession, which many people thought was headed in one direction, may now be headed off to a place that outside observers might not have previously considered.
Lucky for you, I have some reach inside Egypt, and we're going to get a peek inside the story that you might not have seen otherwise.
Former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has been in the news recently over comments he made about the immigration of Soviet Jews to Israel in conversations he had with then President Richard Nixon. These conversations which are part of the Nixon White House tapes were released earlier this month.
He tells Nixon that the "emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern."
Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize yet he is far from being a man of peace or a humanitarian. He has a long record of Human Rights abuses spanning the globe beginning with his role as National Security Advisor through his tenure as Secretary of State.
"President Barack Obama rises at the UN and calls for a further moratorium on building in the settlements, as if it's a crime for peaceful people to have children and add rooms to warm and hospitable homes." Shmuley Boteach, Jerusalem Post
I'd like to know if the peaceful people of East Jerusalem having their houses bulldozed are entitled to these things? Or the Bedouins? Settlement expansion is part of the same manifest-destiny mentality that makes people like Mr. Boteach feel entitled to the entire West Bank. And I wouldn't call this an act of peace.
Dear Mr. President,
Rumor has it you've been writing your own letters lately. I don't know if this account is true or not, but I do believe that you are desperate enough to continue the peace talks that you would make the offer you're rumored to have made to Prime Minister Netanyahu. Increasing our aid money, our weapon sales, our UN-veto frequency in exchange for a 2-month extension on the settlement freeze might seem like a good deal. Let's be honest, the US was going to veto those resolutions, sell those weapons and send that money anyway. I'm sure you still will, and so is Netanyahu, which is why he rejected your offer. I suppose in this sense you had nothing to lose by making it.
But the nature of your offer to Netanyahu highlight the utter foolishness of our policy toward Israel. Unconditional veto of UN resolutions? What does that say about our respect for the UN, the Security Council, or the process of seeking international justice? That no matter what Israel does, the US will use our veto to defend it. I suppose I was foolish to think that your administration had more respect for the UN than the previous one, but it really is disappointing to see how little you care for the institution and its purpose. Your alleged offer makes it clear that Israel may commit whatever human rights violations it sees fit and count on US support. Just like your reaction to the Mavi Marmara. Or the Goldstone Report. Or the Gaza war. Just like your complete lack of outrage over the cold-blooded murder of Palestinian children by Israeli troops. Your policies make it impossible to defend your administration against those on the left who wonder what the point of voting is, any more.
So the settlements will expand. The peace talks will break down. You can't ask President Abbas to abandon his already fragile legitimacy for peace talks that Israel has done nothing to indicate sincerity about. I am sorry, if not surprised. This is why it doesn't matter if you really made that offer to Netanyahu or not. The US cannot continue to pretend to play an honest broker while being this cozily in bed with one side of these negotiations. If you are serious about peace, if you want to earn your Nobel or secure your legacy or if you honestly want to ease the suffering on both sides of this conflict and leave the world a little safer for Sasha and Malia than you have to cease the charade of neutrality. The US can be neutral, it can be an honest broker and can lead both sides to a just and peaceful future. But it has to be more than just lip-service. We have to end the funding of Israel's occupation forces and insist that the Israeli people pay the bill themselves. We have to end our unconditional defense of Israel to the world and base our positions on the values of the United States of America- respect for human life, human rights, and for international law. We have to stop selling weapons to a regime that targets civilians and stop giving tax breaks to us groups funding illegal settlements. If we can practice real neutrality, we can achieve real peace.
(If Israeli citizens do not rise up and overthrow their government, then they are fair game due to their complicity. Just like we are in the US...Both nations deserve a daily 9/11 until Palestine is free. - promoted by Elián Maricón)
THIS ESSAY IS A DIRECT RESPONSE WRITTEN IN ANGER TO KARMAFISH'S ESSAY SAYING THAT EVERY MEMBER OF THE MAVI MARMARA WERE JIHADIS DESERVING DEATH... EVEN THE HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR WHO HE SAID MUST HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED. I REGRET WRITING IT IN ANGER, AND KNEW BOTH THE US WOULD NEVER CHALLENGE ISRAEL, AND IF THEY DID, ISRAEL WOULD BACK DOWN.... IT WAS NOT CALLING FOR A NUCLEAR WAR ANY MORE THAN THE THOUSAND TIMES I LOST MY SHIT AND WISHED TO RIP OFF CHENEY'S HEAD AND SHIT DOWN HIS THROAT - ITS RHETORICAL PEOPLE.
KARMA DELETED HIS WHOLE BLOG - BUT I BELIEVE THAT I CANNOT HIDE MY MISTAKES - I LEARN FROM THEM. NEVER BLOG IN ANGER. NEVER REACT TO A REACTIONARY.
IN THE MEANTIME - WAS HOUSEBOUND WITH A DYING HUSBAND AND VERY EMOTIONAL AT THE TIME.
EXPLAINED AND APOLOGIZED A THOUSAND TIMES - NOW LETS SEE KARMA TAKE BACK WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE PEACE ACTIVISTS ON THE MAVI.
Israel Adds Piracy to List of War Crimes; attacks 50 Nation's Civilians in Undeclared War on Humanitarianism in International Waters
The breaking news shows that up to unarmed 20 humanitarian activists were gunned down, scores more injured as Israel commits PIRACY in INTERNATIONAL waters.
Israel did not just block the ships, they had commandos lowered off helicopters and took these people out with extreme force. They used live rounds against them, and beat the hell out of many more, the numbers keep rising, but over 50 of them at last count.
When they perpetrated the WAR CRIME that was the Gaza attack "Cast Lead" and used children and schools as target practice, breaking International Laws and raining White Phosphorus on CIVILIANS, they could at least hide behind some twisted logic that these starving, trapped in a concentration camp people were "enemies" or a threat.
This act? This PIRACY?
Proves beyond a doubt that even peoples of ANY nation, unarmed people with medicine and food; with rebuilding supplies have no worth as human lives to Israel. NONE. They have no respect for anyone but themselves, value no one. The true face of Israel shows in its ability to do the unimaginable. Attack foreign vessels in International Waters, killing citizens of countries who have been their allies to prevent alleviating the suffering of those they don't even consider human: Palestinians.
You could watch the lies change through the hours: "They were attacked with sticks, then knives, then guns, and when footage disproved the gun claim, they claimed a humanitarian dared to grab the barrel of a machine gun no doubt pointed at his head....
2 more names can be added to the ranks of those who have died attempting to stand up to Israeli injustice against the Palestinians. I don't know their names, yet. Dozens are injured, more deaths may be occurring now, as the attack against ships loaded with humanitarian aid continues. I'm not angry, yet. I can feel it, see the shadow as it descends upon me, as I choke back the tears of frustration that precede it. I want to see you respond, Mr. President, I want you to go on TV and tell me why these people are dead and why we are continuing to fund the military that killed them. I want you to explain to me, in your rational way, why this is in our national interest. Tell me why it is acceptable behavior on the part of our ally to use lethal force against a humanitarian ship. This is not about demonizing Israel; I would question our support of any nation that conducted itself in this manner, that used overwhelming and violent force against peaceful dissent.
How is this going to end, Mr. President? How many more innocent will die? How many more? What do you think is going do for our long-term security? Or Israel's? In the time it has taken me to write the above paragraph, the death toll has been estimated to be 10 people. These were unarmed, peaceful activists seeking to bring medical and educational and construction supplies. Please, Mr. President, explain why the education, health and safety of Gazans is so dangerous that it must be prevented with lethal force? I do not want to be a part of this occupation, any longer. I do not want to pay for the weapons being used to murder humanitarian workers. I do not want this to be conducted in my name. If America's policies in this area cannot be changed, I, and the millions of others outraged by this, deserve an explanation.
The death toll is now being reported at 16. How many more will be dead by the time you receive this letter, I cannot say. Will you know their names, Mr. President?
9 ships are on their way from international waters to the Gaza shore. Israel has vowed to turn them back or reroute them, and is already constructing a makeshift camp for detaining those onboard. These ships are being called, by Israeli officials, absolute provocation. One even commented on the mission to break the blockade, as a violation of international law. I found this to be especially interesting phrasing for a country so often acting as though it is unaware of, or even above, international law. Might now be the time to discuss illegal settlement expansion, or collective punishment, or the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention, or, perhaps, Nuclear nonproliferation? While I'm glad to know that the Israeli government has enough of a passing familiarity with international law to acknowledge its existence, I think it would have more credibility citing these laws if it even pretended to obey them in times of war or in "peacetime" occupation of Palestine. But, I suppose the dire threat posed by 9 boats full of construction, education and medical equipment must be weighed against the risk of looking a touch hypocritical, and if there is one thing the Israeli government has never shown itself to be averse to, it's hypocrisy.
I don't know Omar Khadr. I don't know his crimes, his history or the circumstances surrounding his arrest and detention. I don't have any opinion about his guilt or innocence. I know one thing, only one thing for sure, about Omar Khadr; on the day of his arrest by US soldiers 8 years ago, he was 15 years old. I don't need to know anything else, Mr. President. I don't need to know who he allegedly killed or how he confessed to the crime of participating in the losing side of an ugly war. I don't need to know these things because it is simply inexcusable for us to treat a child this way. A child who was wounded and nearly dead when we arrested him and tortured him and convinced him that he would suffer even worse if he did not confess.
I think the thing that pisses me off more than any other thing about the United States is the absurdly low tax rate and the human damage it causes Americans. The tax rate in the US is so low, it's one of the world's leading tax havens, where the wealthy come to dodge taxes in their home countries. I know no one ever told you that before, but you're just going to have to wait for my next article to get up to speed.
Right now I want to talk about income inequality -- the greatest evil a nation can endure -- and the terrible punishment you and your loved ones are facing as a result.
You are probably familiar with this chart, which shows when and how the United States became a Banana Republic through regressive tax policies:
Now, let's take a look at what the nation-killing policy of regressive tax cutting has done to human life in America:
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